Thursday, April 16, 2009

No Salvation Outside Mel's Church

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I think that Mel Gibson is a great actor. He manages to get pulled over in his own neighborhood for drunk driving and then starts on a some sort of anti-Jewish tirade in 2006. Great script!

I have always discounted his behavior that night as someone with a past drinking problem and then going off the wagon and then blacking out. I know people like that, like Mel drinking beer since age thirteen and after two beers in a bar, the next day, they don’t what they said or did the night before and then they ask you.

Mel, admit that he blacks out? Or has a dysfunctional family situation with Dad? Hell no. His Father is quoted by Mel in many places as “never having lied to him about anything” – like the Holocaust. Of course if Hutton Gibson has never lied about anything, doesn’t that make him perfect? And doesn’t that make Mel the son of God so to speak.

This narcissistic behavior out of the show biz types started or at least I labeled it as such when Michael Jackson was on top twenty five years ago. When you are that rich you can do or believe anything you want to. Until you get caught.

The whole anti-Semitic incident may have been a cowardly way for Mel to start the divorce process. Put a dozen projects on hold, hide the assets offshore and separate long enough for half your actual estate to disappear temporarily. Mel missed his true calling in life. He should have been a RC bishop.

Community property or not his spouse of twenty eight years will get about $120 million. It is a lot less than the 50% - 50% California community property split might promise. But she will get ten percent at least of book value of his properties. Ten percent cash is hard to come up with especially if you are land poor and movie project poor like old dear Mel.

I remember some years ago when they, the press, were talking about his cult church there in Malibu. Must be fifteen, twenty or more years ago. The news said he paid something like $500,000 to fund the construction of his designer religion traditionalist catholic church. Now that all the Hollywood news sites are getting their teeth into Mel – pay back time – I see that his Church is part of a foundation and he has supposedly spent $45 million dollars ??? on it as an ongoing building of a monument to himself and his exclusive religion. His own construction company too – talk about cooking the books. Like I said, he should have been a bishop to put such a low accounting tax book value on an adobe structure with how many acres of sub dividable Malibu real estate, ten, twenty, thirty? Whatever.

Reading all the petty Hollywood stuff, I went onto the Internet and went with the flow to see a few interesting things directly or indirectly related to Mad Max. This here is petty too I admit. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa. But when I read that he thinks that his Episcopalian wife is an automatic send to “hell” – Christ what a medieval jerk she was married to and mothered seven of his known children with!

His church – his cult following – subscribes to the third century concept “extra Ecclesiam nulla salus” (“outside The Church there is no salvation”). This is the backbone of the Traditionalist Catholic movement – that and the Latin Mass. The old Church condemned all the non-Catholics, mostly Jews and Protestants back then to hell.

There is a hero, a saint, a martyr, of that fanatical Traditionalist anti-semitic branch of Catholicism. Have you ever heard of Leonard Feeney SJ, a Jesuit in Boston that got quite popular in his writings in the late 1940s into the early 1950s. Even the Vatican was embarrassed by his success. He managed to get excommunicated for not submitting to proper Vatican management of his activities. He would not tone down his rigid non-conforming exclusive interpretation of salvation within the Church only and never outside the Roman Catholic church.

Back in grade school, I heard the Leonard Feeney story from the nuns every year because he had some poetry in our outdated poetry books. His poems were about St. Mary and the nuns’ dedicated to St. Mary gave a kind rendition to us of why the pope f-----d Leonard Feeney for his views about the damnation of anybody outside the RC church. There was dissention in the ranks before Vatican II and even from nuns.

So when Vatican II defined, redefined who or who was not inside the Church, who would, could be saved from hell etc, the Tradionalists like Hutton Gibson went ape shit. Poor man could not get a decent night’s sleep with the noisy six million Jews (recently arrived immigrants) living in the apartment house next door to him in Queens NY. Had to move to Australia for breathing space so to speak. I think all this made an impression on young Mel. Whatever.

Like I said before Mel is a good actor. I wish him well on the building of his mini-Vatican in fashionable, expensive and exclusive Malibu. I also hope Robyn screws the pants off him in divorce court. Cheers mate.

10 comments:

Dave said...

Never went and saw his movie about the crucifixtion. It seemed like blood lust to me and for that reason I passed. I don't need to see something to believe that it happened. Was it anti-semitic? Probably from what we now know about him and his past. Hollywood the new Sodom..

Mike McShea said...

I saw the film. One innovative thing was to leave it mostly in the original Aramaic language of Jesus and only occasionally use subtitles with translations. If you know your bible you didn’t need any translations, you knew the storyline. I turned away from what I call the hamburger scenes with the scourging of Christ which most experts say would have killed a normal man let alone crucify him.

Also, Mel went off gospel script with some scenes from the visions of a German nun Anne Catherine Emmerich of two hundred years ago. These visions, these very German views of the Passion and the Jews, are what Gibson gets the most criticism from. Even the Vatican has refused to consider these visions of the Passion by this mystic/nun for the ongoing process of her sainthood, in that they do not follow the gospel storyline. Only her stigmata and other writings transcribed and attributed to her are part of the sainthood consideration thing. She and the writing attributed to her visions are a backbone of Traditionalist Catholic reading.

Mel is no doubt now out of the closet about his hatred of the Jews. But considering that only the handful of people who show up every Sunday at his Neverland Church for tax reasons are the only people that are going to be saved - Gee thanks. - You take my money at the box office and offer me no respect as a child of God. I once thought he had talent but now I think he is a certifiable madman.

Catholic Mission said...

FR. FRANCESCO GIORDANO AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE
The Italian diocesan priest Fr. Francesco Giordano studying at the Holy Cross University, Rome and working for his doctorate on the subject extra ecclesiam nulla salus says he affirms the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441.The ex cathedra dogma says all non Catholics, specifying, Jews, Protestants and Orthodox Christians needing to formally enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell, which has fire.

One can affirm Cantate Domino which indicates everyone with no exception, de facto needs to enter the Church and, at the same time believe de jure; in principle, a non Catholic can be saved implicitly (baptism of desire etc) and it would be known only to God.

However Fr. Giordano’s position on 1) Fr. Leonard Feeney and 2) Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II is not clear. He seems to contradict the dogma on these two points. Though, he told me at the Church Santa Maria di Nazareth, Boccea, Rome that he affirms Cantate Domino.

Fr. Giordano, who has studied at the University of Chicago, is a young priest fluent in English and Italian. He received his Licentiate from the University of St. Thomas Aquinas, Rome and the subject of his thesis there was outside the church there is no salvation.

Like St. Thomas Aquinas if one uses the defacto-dejure analysis it is possible to hold the ‘rigorist interpretation’ of the dogma and also affirm the baptism of desire (Council of Trent) and so not be considered a heretic. It does not have to be an either-or position i.e. the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the baptism of desire.

Fr. Giordano believes Cantate Domino is compatible with Vatican Council II, Catechism of the Catholic Church and other Magisterial documents.
CONTINUED
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/fr-franccesco-giordano-affirms-cantate.html#links

Catholic Mission said...

THERE IS NO BAPTISM OF DESIRE THAT WE CAN KNOW OF- Fr.George Puthoor

Second Catholic priest in Rome affirms Cantate Domino, Council of Florence, on extra ecclesiam nulla salus (outside the church there is no salvation)

A second priest in Rom within a few weeks affirms Cantate Domino, Council of Florence pointing out that there is no baptism of desire that we can personally know of.

A Rossiminian priest from South India Fr.George Puthoor said yesterday, Sunday morning, that there is no baptism of desire that we can know of.

He was speaking with me at the Basilica Santi Ambrogio e Carlo, Via del Corso, Rome where he was to offer Holy Mass in Italian at 12 p.m on Trinity Sunday.He gave me permission to quote him on this blog.

Since the cases of non-Catholic saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance are de facto unknown to us and can only be accepted in principle it does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus he observed.

If there is no case of the baptism of desire or implicit faith that we know of then Vatican Council II does not contradict the dogma Cantate Domino.


The secular media hype and those of the liberals have claimed that Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II has changed church teaching with refrence to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Their claim is that every one does not have to enter the Church since there could be non Catholics saved with invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire.This is the claim of Wikipedia on the Internet, Catholic Answers and the Pontifical Universities and seminaries in Rome and abroad.They could quote Pope John Paul II on ‘silent apostasy’ in the Church, as if, they are not a part of it.

So when EWTN says everyone does not have to enter the Church to avoid Hell it is irrational. Since EWTN implies the baptism of desire is de facto known to us.

There is also no Magisterial text to support this position.
CONTINUED
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/there-is-no-baptism-of-desire-that-we.html#links

Catholic Mission said...

PRIESTS WHO OFFER TRIDENTINE-RITE AND NOVUS ORDO MASS AGREE HAVE UNITY ON OUTSIDE THE CHURCH NO SALVATION

It’s not theology, its common sense! Priests can agree that we Catholics do not know a single case of a person saved with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance in the present times.

If we do not know a single case then it means:

1. Fr. Leonard Feeney was correct in saying that there is no baptism of desire (that we know of).

2. Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II on invincible ignorance can be accepted only in principle. It is de jure and never de facto. So it does not contradict the dogma on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

So priests who offer the Tridentine Rite and Novus Ordo Mass are back to the centuries-old interpretation of the ex cathedra dogma, extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

No valid objections can be raised in the name of Fr. Leonard Feeney or Vatican Council II.

So are priests who offer the Tridentine Rite Mass and Mass in the local language united on the centuries-old interpretation of outside the church there is no salvation?

Yes! Since if you agree that we know of no de facto case of the baptism of desire in the present times. There are no obstacles, no objections.

The text of the dogma, thrice defined ex cathedra, speaks clearly for itself. It is repeated in present day Magisterial documents.


Based on the Magisterial texts we are united on extra ecclesiam nulla salus from John 3:5, Mk.16:16, John 6 (on the Eucharist being necessary for salvation), to three definitions of the dogma in the Extraordinary Mode and many other statements from popes in the Ordinary Mode, to Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Dominus Iesus and Ecclesia di Eucarestia.

-Lionel Andrades

Catholic Mission said...

Father Leonard Feeney was not excommunicated for heresy: No Tridentine Rite Mass without Outside the Church There is No Salvation

If there is an objection that Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for affirming extra ecclesiam nulla salus, this is a falsehood. The 'dogma' referred to in the Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston 1949 indicates that all Jews in Boston need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell.

Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.

However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church…-Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston

Here is the text of the dogma.

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” -Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441. Ex cathedra – from the website Catholicism.org

So the Letter of the Holy Office referring to the 'dogma' supported Fr. Leonard Feeney on doctrine. The dogma (Cantate Domino) indicates all Jews in Boston need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell. This was exactly what Fr. Leonard Feeney taught.
CONTINUED

Catholic Mission said...

CONTINUED
There is no Church document which says that Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy. There is no also no Church document which says that the Church has retracted extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The Church still upholds the dogma.

The diocese of Manchester, USA recently appointed a chaplain for the St. Benedict Centre, Richmond, New Hampshire and approved their chapel. The diocese of Worcester has granted canonical status to the St. Benedict’s Abbey monks and the Sisters of St. Benedict Center and the community in Still River, Massachusetts, St. Anns House. The Abbey was recognized as early as 1988 with the approval of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.All these communities inspired by Fr. Leonard Feeney uphold the ex cathedra dogma outside the church there is no salvation which is in accord with Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II, the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845, 846, Dominus Iesus 20 and the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII. They hold what the secular media calls 'the rigorist interpretation' of the dogma.

Their recognition by the diocese was also formally approved by Ecclesia Dei, Vatican since they use the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, permitted by the moto proprio Summorum Pontificium.The Tridentine Rite Mass, the Mass of the popes and saints.

Pius XII was saying in the Letter of the Holy Office all Jews in Boston need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water to avoid Hell. (1) The Letter (Haec Suprema) issued by Cardinal Ottaviani supported Fr. Feeney on doctrine and criticized him for being disobedient to the Archbishop of Boston, whom it was believed then, was faithful to the Church on doctrine. The first part of the Letter referred to doctrine/dogma and the second part to discipline/disobedience.

There is no Magisterial document which states that Fr. Feeney was excommunicated for heresy. The Letter of the Holy Office included in the Denzinger–Enchiridion refers to only ‘disobedience’. The Letter really supported Fr. Leonard Feeney with ‘the dogma’ it needs to be repeated. So it is factually incorrect to say the priest was excommunicated for heresy

There is no explicit or implicit Baptism of Desire that we know of and it is only explicit for God. The ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus clearly says everyone must be a VISIBLE; FORMAL member of the Catholic Church to go to Heaven and avoid Hell and there are no exceptions. The Jewish Left media created the phrase Boston Heresy Case and refer to a rigorist and non rigorist interpretation, as if there can be two interpretations of an infallible teaching . The rigorist interpretation is in accord with the Letter of the Holy Office 1949, Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (845,846)


When Fr. Leonard Feeney and his communities say there is no baptism of desire they mean that there is no baptism of desire defacto or de jure (in principle) that we can know of. None of us knows any case of a person saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance.

The communities of Fr. Leonard Feeney in the USA accept the baptism of desire as a concept; as a possibility, in ‘certain circumstances’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949). They have also provided a definition of the baptism of desire with its conditions on their website (Catholicism.org).

So it is false for a priest offering the Tridentine Rite Mass to reject the dogma Cantate Domino as it was known for centuries, claiming, that Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for affirming this very dogma.

There can be no Tridentine Rite Mass without extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/father-leonard-feeney-was-not.html#links

Catholic Mission said...

Saturday, June 25, 2011
THE GREAT BAPTISM OF DESIRE HOAX : FROM THE MOST HOLY FAMILY MONASTERY, CATHOLIC ANSWERS,USCCB,PONTIFICAL UNIVERSITIES AND SEMINARIES TO NUMEROUS OTHERS TODAY
I can infer that the baptism of desire is unknown to us since, it is only accepted in principle and is never defacto known in the present times in particular cases.


1. Only Jesus knows who is saved with the Baptism of desire.


2. We do not personally know any case in the past, present or future. We cannot say we know someone saved with the baptism of desire. None of us knows any person.


3. Since the baptism of desire is a concept, something accepted in principle, it cannot be real and repeatable like the baptism of water.


4. Since we can only accept it in principle(de jure)it does not conflict with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (outside the Church there is no salvation).The dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441 indicates all non Catholics need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. There are no exceptions since the baptism of desire or blood cannot be administered.


5. So everyone with no exception needs the baptism of water with Catholic Faith to go to Heaven and avoid Hell. If there is anyone saved with the baptism of desire it will be known to God only.


6. The Catholic Church has not retracted the dogma outside the church there is no salvation (Cantate Domino, Bull Unam Sanctam, Fourth Lateran Council) which is in accord with Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II ( all need baptism for salvation), Catechism of the Catholic Church 846( the Church is like a door in which all enter), 845 (The Church is like the only Ark of Noah that saves in the Flood and God wants all to be united in the Catholic Church), Dominus Iesus 20 etc.


7. So when the sedevacantists Most Holy Family Monastery (MHFM) claim that the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma Cantate Domino it is irrational. For them the baptism of desire is not just a concept but a de facto, visible reality like the baptism of water. This is a hoax.


8. Similarly when the liberals who oppose the MHFM say Lumen Gentium 16 (on invincible ignorance) contradicts the dogma it is irrational. They (USCCB, Notification on Fr. Peter Phan etc) imply that we know cases in the present times saved in invincible ignorance. So for them it contradicts the dogma Cantate Domino. Yet we know that those saved in invincible ignorance can only be a concept, a principle we accept. It’s a hoax (by Catholic Answers, EWTN etc) to suggest that those saved in invincible ignorance, unknown to us, contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/great-baptism-of-desire-hoax-from-most.html#links

Mike McShea said...

Is that you again Mel? Can I get an autographed photo mate? you cheap bastard.

Catholic Mission said...

Question: OK so are you saying that anyone who is not Catholic is going to Hell?

Lionel: Do you mean de facto or hypothetically?

De facto everyone on earth needs to be a Catholic, with Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water to go to Heaven and avoid Hell. (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence, Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II etc).

Hypothetically; as a concept, in principle, a person can be saved with implicit salvation (baptism of desire etc) and it will be known only to God.

De facto we do not know any case of a person saved with the baptism of desire etc.

So are you saying that anyone who is not Catholic is going to Hell?

De facto; in reality, when I meet a non Catholic, I know he is oriented to Hell unless he converts into the Catholic Church.

De jure (in principle), a person can be saved in invincible ignorance etc and it would be known only to God.
-Lionel Andrades